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Lucius
26-Nov-14 21:16
01
I am interested understanding better the mechanical differences between the different IO-540 models, depicted in the screenshot below. They have different rated horsepower, yet the same TBO. It is clear that the M series gets its higher horsepower through higher RPM, since compression ratio and displacement are the same.
a)
What explains that M and C models have the same TBO despite being mechanically stressed differently?
b)
Besides higher RPM, what else leads to higher horsepower? I see that ignition is retarded by 5 degrees for the M model compared to C, but does this effect rated HP and why?
c)
Do M and C series have identical camshafts, bearings, rods, cases? Would an engine overhauler mix and match those parts between the models?
d)
Should I expect a de-rated model to wear less and last longer, everything else being equal, due lower mechanical stress?
Lucius
United States
Silvaire
26-Nov-14 22:29
02
I didn’t dig through all the suffixes on the chart but if it isn’t already clear, a Lycoming 540 can be one of two quite different engines depending on whether it has angle-valve or parallel-valve cylinder heads. The former make more power at the same rpm, but weigh about 50 lbs more. I believe the 235-260 hp forms use parallel valve heads, and the 290-300 hp forms use angle valve heads. The rest of the engine is built around the heads, and it appears the 20 degree versus 25 degree timing difference would reflect the more effective combustion chamber shape on the heavier but more powerful angle-valve variants.
Last Edited by Silvaire at 26 Nov 22:41
Silvaire
USA
achimha
27-Nov-14 05:14
03
As you are aware, the engine type refers to the displacement and basic features like injection or turbocharging. The engines carrying the same family name can vary greatly. Different crankcases, different crankshafts, different lubrication system, etc.
A lot of pilots think that their (I)O-540 is exceptionally durable because the “same” engine is also available with 350hp. That is not true, those engines are very different.
I think you have summarized all factors that affect max BHP at a given displacement:
- max RPM
- compression
- valve layout (angular/parallel)
The TBO can be a bit random. Usually the newer the engine, the higher the TBO. If you build a new airframe and need an engine, you are not going to pick one where Lycoming says 1600h which in turn affects their offering…
achimha
LeSving
27-Nov-14 09:07
04
What creates excessive mechanical stress on an engine is cold starts, over revv, vibrations and unbalance (propeller, uneven fuel mixture) and temperature , high gradients or just too much. All these things are installation and operation dependent.
LeSving
The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway
Lucius
28-Nov-14 01:32
05
Sure, cold starts, over revv, vibrations causes excessive stress. Let’s take these factors out of the equation. It would be uneconomical, if the cases are indeed different. As a company, I would engineer one case, that can withstand the highest stress for the highest powered model, and use the same case for all de-rated models. I believe that this is indeed what’s happening. Even the weight is the same for the different models. What exactly is the term “de-rated” referring to? The term suggests that an existing engine is modified (without modifying core components that reduce wear) to generate less power, i.e. reduce RPM, even though it could easily handle the higher stress mechanically.
Lucius
United States
Silvaire
28-Nov-14 02:40
06
The angle valve engines vary in power between themselves as a result of peak rpm – 10 HP more here as a result of running 125 rpm faster. That is de-rating: lower rpm operation (limited by the propeller governor) to reduce power output. Likewise for the parallel valve engines – 10 HP more as a result of being 125 rpm faster.
No meaningful comparison can be made between engines in the two columns on the left (which I believe would be the angle valve engines) and engines in the two columns on the right (which I believe would be the parallel valve engines) because they are essentially two different engines with a 40 HP difference in power output at either rated rpm. The suffixes within each of the two basic types describe more minor variations and developments that have occurred over 57 years of 540 production: often things like engine mount type, wide deck versus narrow deck Link, ignition differences and crankshaft differences that don’t affect rated power output.
Last Edited by Silvaire at 28 Nov 04:06
Silvaire
USA
Peter
28-Nov-14 07:52
07
I think the engines are actually very similar dimensionally, overall. The biggest differences are the compression ratios (that’s a big one, and a big stress and thus engine life factor) and the max permitted RPM (also a big one – 10% more rpm at the same torque is 20% more HP, AFAIK).
Could you get 40HP more just by changing the valve arrangement?
Peter
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
achimha
28-Nov-14 11:11
08
As a company, I would engineer one case, that can withstand the highest stress for the highest powered model, and use the same case for all de-rated models. I believe that this is indeed what’s happening.
Only if you were completely missing the importance of weight in an airplane application. There are many different crankcases, crankshafts, bearings, etc.
achimha
Peter
28-Nov-14 11:50
09
I think you would be amazed how little difference there is in say the crankshaft dimensions between the various IO540 engines.
The thicker crankshafts are sometimes accommodated into the same crankcase casting by the use of thinner bearing sleeves!
IMHO a big reason for so many different variants is due to aircraft manufacturers asking for them. For example the single shaft dual mag (D3000) variant – the TB20 etc IO540-C4D5D – was done to
- reduce the engine cost by about $1000
- generate more space behind the engine
- free up an extra accessory drive point
The last two are almost never required in reality, and the $1000 is totally trivial (on an engine costing say $40k OEM, $60k end user, not current prices) but we are where we are, and once the thing gets certified and ends up on somebody’s TC, changing it is just far too much effort. Any effort from the field would need an STC and that’s a lot of work, and you would never get enough people to dip into their pockets to fund an STC to go from say 250HP to say 260HP (achievable with 9:1 pistons instead of 8.5:1).
Peter
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
Silvaire
28-Nov-14 14:54
10
Could you get 40HP more just by changing the valve arrangement?
Yes, they are completely different cylinder heads with different combustion chamber and porting. I’m not an expert on 540 suffixes but on the 360 that uses the same cylinders it’s 200 HP versus 180 HP, with a weight increase. That more or less scales.
The engines have been made over a long period and there are a tremendous number of variants and sub variants. For instance, in addition to parallel valve versus angle valve there are different types of angle valve cylinders (unusual cross flow variants are apparently fitted to Piper Chieftain and Cessna 206)
PS photos to show the basic difference…. Note the change in valve cover shape, which is how they can be differentiated visually.
This is an angle valve cylinder:
This is an parallel valve cylinder:
Last Edited by Silvaire at 28 Nov 15:30
Silvaire
USA
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